I’m in a slightly cranky mood, so let that be the reason for most of the following crankiness.
As I’ve said before, when I check my emails each day, there are dozens and dozens of donation and sponsorship requests from alllll sorts of groups. Â Most of them aren’t “Hey Matty boy, how are ya!” Â but rather, “To Whom It May Concern.” Â I am less likely to donate to the latter.
But overall, we give quite a bit of $ away each week, and although it would be nice to give to everyone who emais us with a donation request, it’s just not possible.
Yesterday, I received an email from a lady named Mary (insert irony) from some local church who is organizing a golf tournament. Â So, like I do with many religious groups that ask for donations, I asked, “I’d be happy to, but before I give, would you mind telling me your church’s policy on gay marriage?”
To which she replied, “I can tell you that my personal policy is that I support gay marriage, but unfortunately our church’s policy is that they are against it.” and then she told me how she hopes it changes, etc. and she sounded really sweet.
However, I did not give to her church.
She also noted some of the other local businesses who are giving, some of the businesses I recognized as being gay-owned, or owned by gay-friend owners.
Maybe I’m making a big deal out of something that shouldn’t be, but I really take offense to raising money for a church that has these policies. Â Yes, I realize these are the policies of MOST church organizations, but maybe these church organizations would change their tune if all of a sudden there was no money coming in.
“Sorry Church, I’d love to help you guys out, but I’m waiting for you to change your gay marriage policy. Â Sorry.” Â Was that so hard? Â And you’d be doing the right thing.
It seems to me that a lot of these homophobic beliefs around the country (North Carolina, Colorado, etc.) are taught IN church, where kids are being told that two men or women who love each other is a sin. Â It’s bad. Â It’s unnatural. Â You’ll burn in hell.
Bullshit.
And honestly, I don’t even know why people would attend a church that doesn’t believe in gay marriage. Â I mean, it violates what I consider to be the most fundamental of all religious values… Love Thy Neighbor. Â or Do Onto Others. Â or whatever you wanna call it.
I mean, c’mon. Â Are you telling me that Jesus wouldn’t have loved the gays? Â With all those technicolor dream coats? Â psh.
Stop giving money to churches that don’t support gay marriage.
Aaron
May 15, 2012 at 7:52 am
It’s stances like the one you’re taking that usher in change. I applaud you for it.
BakingSuit
May 15, 2012 at 9:21 am
I’m totally with you on this one Matt!
Kat
May 15, 2012 at 9:35 am
Ummmm….AMEN!
I have such drawn out opinions about the Catholic Church (I won’t bore you or your readers with them), but I applaud your stance because you are 100% right. (And as an author of one of those outreaching emails from a proper non-profit in need, lol, I thank you!)
David
May 15, 2012 at 9:38 am
Amen, Matt!!
Glenn
May 15, 2012 at 9:39 am
Can I get an amen? A-MEN!
GenWar
May 15, 2012 at 9:46 am
I’ll admit that I haven’t been to THAT many churches and I am not a scholar of religion. I am just one man with one man’s observations. But, in my experience, there are relatively few religions with the values of “Love Thy Neighbor. or Do Onto (sic) Others.” I’ve seen LOTS of churches/religions that SAY that that is among their values. But, only a couple where it actually WAS among their values.
actions > words, and all that…
Eric
May 15, 2012 at 9:51 am
Well stated, Matt. Couldn’t agree with this stance more!
Eric
May 15, 2012 at 10:25 am
Matt, Being in the work field that I am in, I deal with Priests, Rabbis, Ministers, Reverends, religious officials of all sorts. Most religions are against gay marriage and the gay lifestyle all together. I personally find it appalling. Most, and when I say MOST I mean it…. Most religious officials, especially catholic officials are gay. Some are open about it behind the scenes with the cloak of their religion. I find this soooo ironic and wrong. I hope someday it becomes acceptable for everyone to get married in any religion. Sorry for the quick rant.
Randy
May 15, 2012 at 11:05 am
Matt, as my church is currently seeking funds for our golf tournament, I’m afraid it is my church that you are referring. Even if it’s not, I feel I must comment on this issue.
If it is in fact my church, the funds from said gold tournament will assist with the renovation of said church, which is not only a religious landmark, but a cultural, architectural and historical landmark in the City of Albany.
Our church sees thousands of visitors a year, from governors and those of power, to those of modest means, even many homeless persons who come to my church to take refuge from the torment of daily existence.
They come to sit, sometimes pray, sometimes sleep, but they come. They come because whether you believe in gay marriage or not, the church, my church, is a symbol of hope. Remember these churches were full after 9/11 because for as “evolved” as humans have become, when the shit hits the fan, we go to the church.
As a “liberal catholic” I have many serious issues with the Bishops and how they have handled many issues including birth control, womens issues, child sex abuse, and yes, gay marriage. Personally, I would love to see two men or two women commit themselves before God in my church.
But just because that is not the case, does not mean that churches have no value in society. I cannot speak for all churches, but I know my church, and the Catholic Church as a whole, has a very welcoming policy toward gays. I mean, most of the priests and people in the church are gay!
My church feeds hundreds of people a day in the South End of Albany. We all know what Catholic Charities does every day. Our hospitals do not turn people away no matter what and were in fact, the only hospitals during the early days of AIDS that ministered to these very sick men. Senator Tom Duane has made mention of this fact often.
So, perhaps my church does not fit into your philosophical ideal 100%.Honestly, it does not fit into mine either. But I think your labeling my church and many others churches as homophobic is kinda out of line.
What a marriage is has been defined as such for thousands of years. To burst out and say that anyone who does not believe that it must now be this or that as homophobic is, well, a very lame argument.
It is certainly your personal choice as to where you give your hard earned money to. But I do wish you reconsider.
Matt
May 15, 2012 at 11:23 am
I’m sorry, Randy, but did you just say “the Catholic Church as a whole, has a very welcoming policy toward gays.” You’re kidding, right?
And do you actually think I’m out of line by labeling “many other churches” as homophobic? You don’t really believe that, do you?
Tim
May 15, 2012 at 11:44 am
Matt, I totally agree with you that Jesus would have/did love gay people. Who says he didn’t/doesn’t love them. The church should be welcoming gay people into with open arms. I think this truth rings resoundingly when you discuss how he ate with “sinners” (as marked by the ‘religious’ of the time; when in truth we are ALL sinners), and how he saved the adulterous woman from the religious people who were going to stone her (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+8%3A1-11&version=NIV). BUT the heart of Jesus was that he loved them/her so deeply, that he wants them/her to “go now and leave [her] life of sin.” It wasn’t about her, it was about her sin. I know this probably won’t be well-received, but God/Jesus LOVES EVERYONE! Just like I might be a thief or a liar, God loves me but hates my sin. We are called to leave those sinful behaviors, thoughts, etc. behind. Anyway, thanks for sharing your feelings, Christians NEED to hear this stuff!
Katie
May 15, 2012 at 12:31 pm
Randy, the community work your church does is undoubtedly commendable. It’s unfortunate that more churches, and organizations in general, don’t do more of what your church does. It’s also common and natural for people to weigh the good deeds a church puts forward against the bad. If you remove all the scorekeeping from the table, however, and you look solely at this one situation, it’s illogical.
The problem lies, for me, in the church’s request. The Catholic Church believes homosexuality is a sin (specifically, that it is a violation of both divine and natural law). They have no problem, however, soliciting money from a gay man – a man who, in their kindest consequence, isn’t allowed the same rights or freedoms as his neighbor and, in their worst, will burn in hell for all eternity. So Matt isn’t okay, but his money is??? It’s hypocritical, insincere and deceitful.
DanCF
May 15, 2012 at 12:37 pm
Matt I agree with you 100%. And Randy, get real. I don’t care how much good your Church does. If it discriminates against even one person, it negates any good it has done. The Catholic Church is one of the worst offenders when it comes to equal marriage rights, openly lobbying against it. The whole “we love gay people as long as they don’t have sex” crap just doesn’t fly. It is bullshit.
Janna
May 15, 2012 at 12:46 pm
I was born and baptized into the Catholic religion and I, too, have been very disgusted with the Catholic Church’s stance on gay marriage, birth control, abortion, not allowing women to be priests and most heinous of all, the sexual abuse of children.
I am now a Quaker (on an interfaith path) and a member of what is called an “unprogrammed” Quaker Meeting which is more liberal and accepting of gay unions (there are also more conservative or programmed Quaker Meetings but that’s not my preference). In our Meeting, or congregation, we have had a number of gay couples as members and our Meeting even held a Quaker Marriage Ceremony for two women seeking to commit themselves to each other. The Quaker testimony on equality commends its members to consider all people as equal, regardless of their race, sex, sexual preferences and so on. Historically, Quakers have been on the forefront of anti-slavery, Native American rights and war resistance. Anyway…
I love this blog entry, Matt. Once again you are speaking out for what you believe and when given the choice, you stand firm in refusing to monetarily support institutions that display bigotry against you and other gay individuals. I’m just so proud of you Matt. Like someone commented earlier, I paraphrase…”that’s how things get changed”. Hope you stick with your gut on this one Matt. Unfortunately for so many devote Catholics they have no choice but to watch as the Catholic Church self-destructs…and some of them are even willing to go down with the ship.
P.S. I know there’s a Quaker Meeting in Albany but not sure how gay-friendly they are. It might be worth checking out if you’ve a mind to connect spiritually. I love the Quakers. For the most part they are very open to change (as what they call “continuing revelation”).
Signed,
Aunt Janice
Randy
May 15, 2012 at 12:48 pm
Matt, are there some churches, especially in the South that are “anti gay” as a rule? You bet there are.
But the Catholic Church as a whole, from the Vatican down is not anti gay. I urge you to go through and read the statements issued by Cardinal Dolan and even the Pope and you will see that this is not the case.
There are many gays that serve in ministerial roles in the church and have been doing so for many many years. There are those like Father Michael Judge, a gay priest and the renowned “Saint of 9/11″ and many many other gay men and women that serve in the Church.
If you think the church was so homophobic, then why would these people be allowed to serve? Why would they bother?
It seems you’re very angry with the church for some reason or another. But I question the hatred in light of all of the good work the church does and continues to do for ALL people. It would seem the gay community is only concerned with its own and anyone that does not walk lock stock and barrel along with whatever the gay rights lobby says, is labeled a bigot and homophobic. The churches concern is that of ALL of humanity.
I would also point to the fact that the civil rights movement was a movement rooted in the christian churches of the south.
I don’t know you well enough to call you an extremist. But there are certainly extremists in the gay community as there are extremists in the Catholic Church and all sectors of society.
Sadly, their voice is often times the loudest.
Leigh
May 15, 2012 at 1:01 pm
Randy, I’d be very interested to read some of these statements issued by the Catholic Church in favor of homosexuality. Please provide links.
One of our close family friends is man who left the priesthood because of the church’s attitude towards his being openly gay. I’m sure he would be interested in reading the pro-gay statements as well.
But something tells me that it will go like this: “We don’t have a problem with gay people, we just don’t want them to be out, live a gay lifestyle, or be able to get married. Other than that, we’re cool. (And we’ll pray for you.)”
Tim
May 15, 2012 at 1:29 pm
You cannot lose the teachings and actions of Jesus out of this discussion. To do so, would make all “for” or “against” debates only about churches and not about the true heart of God/Christ/Christianity. And in my eyes, that makes any debate about a church irrelevant because we are supposed to reflect Jesus and when we do not, we ‘miss the mark’ (ie: sin). No church is perfect, no individuals are perfect (including the Pope, Mother Theresa, etc.). There is only One who is perfect and His name is Jesus.
Katie
May 15, 2012 at 1:32 pm
Randy,
Please read the quoted advice below from the Catholic Church and tell us again that your church is being falsely accused of bigotry.
Full Question
“My cousin is a lesbian living with an another woman. Am I a bigot for feeling uncomfortable around them?”
Answer
“By acting out on their homosexuality, your cousin and her partner are doing something that you know is offensive to God. How can that not make you feel uncomfortable? There is no bigotry in this. It is perfectly OK—even necessary—to judge behavior and to feel uncomfortable around others whose behavior you know to be immoral.”
http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/my-cousin-is-a-lesbian-living-with-an-another-woman-am-i-a-bigot-for-feeling-uncomfor
In fairness, I guess I’m also a bigot for refusing to accept your church’s discriminatory ways.
Tim
May 15, 2012 at 1:46 pm
To that end, churches should only be compared to the Word of God (in the case of Catholics, the Bible). If they follow through with what the Bible teaches, you cannot blame them for following their beliefs. You don’t have to go along with it, it is your free will. Lastly, the church can ask whomever they want to fund them. Just as it is your right to chose to go the church or not, it’s your right not to fund them or not. Nor should you feel obligated/guilted by any PERSON to give. How you identify how to steward the money you are given is your decision, and it is not the responsibility of others to lord that over you. You ARE responsible, however, to do something with your money, whether for yourself, for others, or for God.
Jess
May 15, 2012 at 3:19 pm
Randy, you managed to call Matt’s argument lame and in the same breath, ask for money! Wow..
scott
May 15, 2012 at 4:32 pm
at first glance, I thought that was Tom in the picture, ha
Susan
May 15, 2012 at 4:57 pm
Arguing that the Catholic Church is accepting of gays because there are closeted gay people who are priests, deacons, etc. is the funniest thing I have heard today, no this week! (I would this month but I saw a really funny episode of Family Guy last week that still makes me chuckle.)
Randy- the Vatican and the Catholic Church have made it clear over, and over, and over again, that they are anti-gay and anti-gay marriage. If you need one of the billion examples, I give you Pope Benedict saying that homosexuality is a “tendency toward an intrinsic moral evil, and thus the inclination itself must be seen as an objective disorder.” He goes on, “A person engaging in homosexual behavior therefore acts immorally.”
The sick irony you have pointed out Randy is that these discriminatory, illogical and amoral policies marginalize parishioners and officials within the Catholic Church itself. How cruel and twisted to be told that your Church and your God love you only if you deny the person that you are and pretend to be someone else.
I don’t give any money to the Catholic Church or any organization that actively supports discrimination and bigotry. Especially those that do it in the name of God.
Claire
May 15, 2012 at 9:36 pm
As a recovering Catholic, I am glad you have the guts to stand up to these religious organizations. Holier than thou, but when it is them being investigated, they hide. If the Albany diocese had to come clean as they did in Boston, the ‘much loved’ bishop might find himself with a pink slip in the collection basket.
JD
May 15, 2012 at 10:42 pm
Randy, if your church activity leads you into the kind of delusional thinking you’ve demonstrated here, you’ve made the best argument yet for abandoning organized religion. Step back and take a hard look at this bigoted hypocritical monolith you eagerly serve. See it face to face, don’t just know it in part.
Rich-m-p
May 16, 2012 at 12:09 am
Katie’s second paragraph hits the nail on the head. And so does Matt by giving this church nada. They’re not the only show in town. There are pahhlennty of great orgs in the Capitol area, with altruistic outreach, sans the hypocrisy and judgment.
Matt’s track record speaks for itself; he’s almost always first on line to give when an organization DESERVES it.
Larry
May 16, 2012 at 1:58 am
Firist let me say that the Church is run by a closeted self loathing homosexual pedophile Nazi. But that doesn’t make all things Catholic evil or unworthy of our support. Every day Nuns feed the poor in our inner cities, they tend to the sick in our hospitals, they teach children of all denominations. All with very little recompense. How many of us reading this blog have done as much good as Father Peter Young?
So this Pope is trying to bring back into the fold a Cardinal that had been excommunicated for denying the Holocaust while condemning the Sisters who have been doing the Churches greatest work. I wish he had taken as strong a stance against the Priest who have raping Alter Boys. Tough to really advocate for the Church but look at the good it does every day in your community, The folks at the Bethesda House are ministering to all who turn up. Food pantries in many parishes are feeding the poor. And how many Catholic volunteers have been there from the beginning of the AIDS crisis. It is screwed up right now but lets wait and see how it improves over the next thousand years. Then we can cast the first stone.
Rich-m-p
May 16, 2012 at 8:21 am
Hi Larry. There are a lot of mixed messages and contradictions in the Catholic Church (CC) that’s for sure. And I suppose there are better strategies than throwing the baby away with the bath water. I however, ain’t giving the CC one red cent for a new well. They call me a pervert and a sinner huh because I’m a gay man. Then I guess my money’s perverted and wicked too and I would not think of contaminating them.
marnie
May 16, 2012 at 9:19 am
I am raised catholic by a single mother who was amazing and died too young.
She helped people and was so kind, however because she chose to divorce my dad many moons ago, the church did not accept her. She was raised strict catholic so went through all the begging and hoops to be accepted and finally was. Not sure if that involved torture or not but anyway I find it crazy their rules. Especially about gay marriage too which my mom was for as well. So I live by my mother in laws quote (rest her soul as well) God is everywhere so church is too and she once had a stained glass window in her bathroom so she said that was church. You can believe in anything just as long as you have peace inside of you. There are those people that go to church and come out the door and treat people terribly, they are not better for showing up and belonging. I commend you for sticking to your thoughts
Hopeful
May 16, 2012 at 10:54 am
So can someone tell me what religion/belief is perfect? Is there such an organized religion?
DL
May 16, 2012 at 4:10 pm
#29 no such thing.
The issue I have with the Catholic Church is the hypocrisy/double standard. The Church knowingly ordained priests who were gay in spite of its teachings because it was more interested in growing as an institution for both political and economic gain. It was a safe haven for many gay men – where else could a single man work, not get married and not be questioned and judged by society. The Church did so at the expense of countless young innocent men and even after the facts came out the Church was and still is somewhat in denial about what happened. How many victims had to re-live the nightmare in a courtroom to get justice and compensation for the irreparable damage. I grew up Catholic put will not donate a dime to such a hypocritical institution.
I believe everyone is entitled to support or oppose gay marriage but at least have the courage to do so honestly. If you are a bigot just say so, if you oppose for religious reasons no problem but you must walk the walk and talk the talk consisently throughout your life (you do not get to throw down the religion card regarding gay marriage and show up for Mass on Christmas and Easter and pretend to be committed to your Church and all its teachings), and if you believe marriage is between a man and a woman then fight it out with your elected officials because ultimately that is where the issue will be decided -in the Courts – one State at a time as it is now or maybe one day the definition will be clarified at the Federal level and force all States to issue marriage licenses to same sex couples.
Darren
May 17, 2012 at 10:22 pm
As a general rule of thumb, when you throw money at something, you get more of it. When you give money to a flawed organization, it’s more likely to stay that way.
Kristen
Jun 2, 2012 at 1:06 am
Larry- first, Bethesda House is an interfaith ministry with no connection whatsoever to the catholic church, and second, the good one does in one area does not excuse their utter refusal to do right in another… It’s like saying I killed a puppy, but I adopted three kittens, so it’s ok. On what planet?!
Catholic churches are closing doors and combining parishes at alarming rates because they are losing the ability to keep parishioners past the age where their parents stop forcing them to go and there are fewer and fewer men joining the priesthood. Why? Because now men can be openly gay and don’t have to become a priest to cover up the fact that they have no interest in having sex with women, and because young educated Americans don’t want to hear the fire and brimstone about their gay friends burning in hell or their premarital cohabitation making Jesus cry… Intelligent young people are supporting organizations that promote progressive equality and social justice, not pitying tolerance.
If your church wants a chance of raising funds they need go raise the moral bar they’ve set for themselves. LOVE thy neighbor, not pity and pray for their immortal soul…